Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/11/1998 03:20 PM House L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 304 - MOVE LEGISLATURE TO ANCHORAGE Number 0062 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced the committee's first order of business was HB 304, "An Act relating to the location of the convening of the legislature in regular session; repealing provisions relating to student guests of the legislature; and providing for an effective date." Chairman Rokeberg presented HB 304, noting he and Representative Joseph Green were co-prime sponsors of this legislation. He said he wished to bring a few items to the committee's attention and there would be limited testimony. Chairman Rokeberg commented that Jeff Logan, Legislative Assistant to Representative Green, had a map exhibit for the committee. Number 0158 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated HB 304 was brought forward with the initial intention of relocating the legislature to Anchorage, however he referred to testimony he gave before the House State Affairs Standing Committee, to local Juneau radio, the press, et cetera, whereas he believes it is very important the legislature be near the people and that access be available. He said a major reason he became involved in the legislation is concern he has about the Capitol Building itself, stating he wanted to briefly focus on this that day. He referred to a March 1998 letter he wrote which was published in an Anchorage neighborhood newspaper, Westside Pulse, noting there were copies in the committee members' packets. Chairman Rokeberg emphasized he wanted to take up the different alternatives needed to generate greater access for the people of Alaska to their Capitol. Number 0258 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG listed choices to be examined: 1) Remodeling the existing Capitol Building structure. 2) Moving to a leased premises in the Anchorage area. 3) Building a 75,000 square foot addition to the Bank of America building [550 West Seventh Avenue in Anchorage, to be renamed the Robert B. Atwood Building]; Chairman Rokeberg noted expansion had been considered in the building's initial architectural design. He said he had stated before the legislature the previous year that housing the legislature was not the reason for the building's purchase, and he reiterated the building had not been purchased to be a defacto Capitol building. 4) Drafting a Request for Proposal (RFP) from any community in the state that wished to respond for the need for a new Capitol building, including Juneau. Chairman Rokeberg said he calls this his "field of dreams alternative; build it and they will come," which he will address further. 5) Bringing back the Willow capital move initiative with what he calls the truthful cost (indisc.) analysis. 6) Rotating legislative sessions between the cities or having committee meetings in various communities throughout the state for certain time periods during the session. 7) What he terms, "Anybody else got an idea?" He asked for ideas as to how they can enhance access for the people of Alaska to their legislators, making this branch of government more responsive and sensitive to people's needs. Number 0387 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG referred to State of Alaska Invitation to Bid Number 5401, for 7,100 square feet in downtown Anchorage for an adult public assistance office. He pointed out "A" under "paragraph" 3 on page 13 of the bid, the second page of the copy distributed to the committee. He noted this is the current minimum standard regarding building type for any state lease. It read: 3. Type of Building: A. The space offered shall be in a building of sound and substantial construction, and shall meet all applicable building codes, life safety codes, regulations and standard building practices of the City, Borough and State in which located. The building shall be protected against fire and other hazards and shall be provided with ventilation. The building shall also conform to applicable thermo and energy standards, and shall comply with OSHA [Occupational Safety and Health Administration] safety codes. The building and the area in which it is located shall be clean and free from objectionable tenancy, odors, vermin, rodents, or other conditions which, in the opinion of the State, will be detrimental to agency operation. Number 0523 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated this was boilerplate language in the state lease document, and he submitted to the committee that the current Capitol Building would not qualify for a bid for state occupancy. He noted this was particularly relating to the life safety code provisions, other applicable building codes, et cetera. Chairman Rokeberg stated that there is a clear need for new premises for the legislature. He referred to a vote brought before the people to move the capital, noting he thinks that vote failed because of the legislature's lack of commitment, as he said before the House State Affairs Standing Committee. He commented the City and Borough of Juneau (CBJ) and its people have tried to face up to this issue in the past; he doesn't think the people of Juneau should commit themselves to a very large financial expenditure without a commitment. Drawing on his 25-year experience as a commercial real estate specialist in building development, he noted the statement, "If you don't have a deal you can't make a move," is fundamental logic. Number 0618 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he has not intended to bring any hardship or ill feelings to the community of Juneau with his position on this legislation. He thinks Juneau is a wonderful and delightful community, but he truly believes Alaska's Capitol needs to be accessible to the people and also be a functional building the people of the state can take pride in as representing their government. He said that currently expending any money on this project would not be wise, given the clear economic problems the state is presently facing. On the other hand, he thinks it is not an issue that they can avoid for too much longer, given the Capitol Building's current condition. He stated, "I think the sufferance of the particular peculiar building codes here and the ability to continue occupying is something that needs to be really finally recognized." Chairman Rokeberg said the building's staff does an excellent job of doing what they can. He indicated the financial ability to make capital appropriations to the Capitol Building through legislative carry-forward funds and other means no longer exists, commenting that there have been substantial improvements to the structure. He said this has been particularly in the areas of compliance with Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) accessibility requirements and other obvious needs. However, he noted this only goes so far with a building which he believes was designed and built in 1931 and he said is basically structurally obsolete. Chairman Rokeberg stated the committee would take limited testimony and HB 304 would be held for further consideration. Number 0785 JEFF LOGAN, Legislative Assistant to Representative Joseph Green, came forward to testify. He stated Representative Green, the co- prime sponsor of HB 304, was conducting a House Judiciary Standing Committee hearing on subsistence legislation and apologized for his absence which in no way indicated any waning of his support for HB 304. Mr Logan said he would bring two issues to the committee's attention: 1) the Capitol Building's condition, 2) the Capitol Building's location. Addressing the second point he referred to the previously mentioned map which had been distributed to the committee. [The map Mr. Logan referred to showed the outline of the state of Alaska with approximately 43 communities labeled. Anchorage was shown at the center of three concentric circles and Juneau at the center of two concentric circles. The circle closest to the two cities was colored green and represented a straight-line distance of 100 miles out from the cities. The second concentric circles around both cities was colored blue and represented a straight-line distance of 200 miles out from the cities. The third concentric circle around Anchorage was colored red and represented a straight- line distance of 300 miles from Anchorage. There was no third concentric circle for Juneau. The map legend indicated the first concentric circle around Juneau at 100 miles contains a population of 50,000; the second circle at 200 miles contains an additional 24,000; for a total population of 74,000 within a 200-mile radius of Juneau. The population within a 100-miles radius of Anchorage is 361,000, according to the map legend; the additional population at the 200-mile radius is 7,100; and the additional population at the 300-mile radius is 115,000; for a total population of 483,100 within a 300-mile radius of Anchorage.] MR. LOGAN said there are 483,000 people 300 miles out of Anchorage and 74,000 people 300 miles out of Juneau, noting this graphically illustrates why the other prime sponsors believe the legislature should be located in Anchorage [Note: the map does not show a population figure for a 300-mile distance from Juneau]. Number 0875 MR. LOGAN referred to the condition of the Capitol Building and the chairman's previous remarks. Mr. Logan said that for many years the Capitol Building has been maintained with the legislative carry-forward; he said this was the portion of the budget unspent in the previous year which went into somewhat of a "slush" fund. He stated a few years ago the legislature had decided to do away with that account under Republican leadership and be on budget, noting the governor is still allowed to have such a fund but the legislature has taken its own away. Mr. Logan said these types of expenditures for repairing and restoring the Capitol will now have to be stated on the capital budget, and will become much more apparent as the need for these types expenditures escalates. He commented that Chairman Rokeberg had stated some of the alternatives, noting they look enthusiastically at the process the chairman has set out to examine what some of the other municipalities might be able to provide in the way of a suitable Capitol. In his final statement, Mr. Logan asked the committee to look around the room with the next bill to be heard. He said it would be good illustration of how inadequate the building was to meet the legislature's current needs. He stated there were going to be people in the room in wheelchairs and the only exit from this room, other than the crowded entryway, was up a set of stairs. Mr. Logan said that is not right and it should be fixed, stating, "We hope to continue with this effort to the extent we can to make sure that everybody has equal access to the Capitol from other cities, and in and out of the Capitol while/if it remains here." Number 0998 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that they were currently in an illegal fire configuration because they were at the end of, basically, a 20-foot dead-end corridor and, under the Uniform Building Code and "all the fire permutations thereto," the exit stairwell could not be exited through a meeting room. Chairman Rokeberg indicated this particular code violation occurs throughout the Capitol Building, including the House and Senate chambers, and he noted this was just a "drop in the bucket" of all the other violations. Number 1038 REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS said the testimony indicated HB 304 would not be moving out of committee at this meeting, and he asked Mr. Logan if it was Representative Green's intention in sponsoring HB 304 that the bill would move or that it would just be used as a conversation piece and then dropped. Number 1058 MR. LOGAN replied it was the sponsor's intent to move all legislation he introduced. Mr. Logan stated, "If, in the chairman's wisdom, this piece of legislation needs more review by the Labor and Commerce Committee, we're willing to sit down and work on it and make it a better bill, and hopefully see it move at a later date intact." Number 1082 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated the committee would take testimony from Mayor Eagan, asking all witnesses to limit their testimony to three minutes. Number 1110 MAYOR DENNIS EAGAN, City and Borough of Juneau, came forward to testify. He noted he appreciated the chairman's remarks and offer to (indisc.) legislative approval for construction of a new state Capitol building in Juneau. Upon the chairman's lobbying and working with the community, Mayor Eagan stated he would be more than happy to give Chairman Rokeberg the plans they tried put forth the last time and appreciated the chairman's efforts to assist them. Mayor Eagan said there had not been enough copies of the map, but to him it is a matter of semantics; he can draw the same thing on Washington, D.C. Mayor Eagan said he had just returned from that city, noting it is a 4,000 mile journey to the nation's capital. He spoke from a prepared statement: On behalf ... of the assembly and the citizens of this community, I'd like to thank you for allowing me to testify this afternoon. And I hope that you'll appreciate the advances that Alaska's capital city has made in providing opportunities to residents of Alaska. Since statehood in 1959, just 37 short years ago, we've been in the unique position of trying to focus not only on the critical elements of sustainability: economic vitality, social equity and environmental health, but the single issue few other communities in the nation, or for that matter, the world face, and that's the issue of being the ultimate destruction of our city through the ballot process by way of a vote of the statewide electorate. Eight times since statehood, Juneau has faced economic and social upheavals that normal communities would not face. With dedication and diligence, we have confronted this issue, with absolutely no idea what the outcome will be regarding our basic economic and social vitality. The issue here is moving the seat of state government to an area outside of Juneau to where some say is a location closer to the people. While we have ultimately won all those battles, the most recent in 1994, these votes take a tremendous toll on the citizens of our community who have lived here for any length of time. I was born here. When we should be attending to making Juneau a model for sustainable development, we have had to spend untold resources on fighting efforts to change the seat of government in the state of Alaska. In just the past two elections, 1982 and 1994, and associated ballot initiatives since statehood, it has cost this city of 32,000 residents over $7 million in taxpayer and community-donated funds to fight these battles. So when folks in the rest of the United States talk about sustainability, we call it survivability. To sustain Juneau as the capital of Alaska, we're accomplishing many things to make our city more accessible to the rest of Alaska and the world. You see, I believe access comes in many other ways than an interstate highway. We were one of the first communities on the west coast of the United States to recognize the importance of the Internet. We established a home page on the World Wide Web, affording access not only to Alaskans to their capital city, but to anyone in the world that has an inquiry about Juneau. We've been instrumental in providing electronic access through video teleconferencing through a major investment in telecommunications technology. Juneau is the major investor in C-Span type programming called Gavel-to-Gavel coverage, that allows over 450,000 Alaskans, that's about 85 percent of the adult population, to view uninterrupted coverage of the daily deliberations of the Alaska State Legislature during its 120-day sessions. The CBJ, Federal Aviation Administration, the National Center for Atmospheric Research and Alaska Airlines are in the final stages of a multi-million dollar research project that is going to ultimately change the way airline travel is accomplished throughout the world, and Juneau is at the forefront of development and implementation of that technology in which aircraft will not travel routes as you know them, but on courses dictate by global positioning satellites. We're doing many other things to make Juneau a better capital, from increasing affordable housing, increasing our housing vacancy rate, getting a handle on managing our burgeoning tourism industry, working with mining concerns to bring about projects on line, and initiating plans for a vision for our capital city. While these are just a few of the major projects that we're undertaking, and issues we're confronting, I believe we're making great strides in making Juneau a better capital city for all Alaskans. We're proud of the men and women in the legislature and staff who work tirelessly to make our state a model for the rest of the nation. ... Thank you for your hard work. Pro or con, the citizens of this community appreciate your efforts. Again, thank you Mr. Chair and members of the committee for this opportunity to testify. Number 1411 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG thanked the mayor, noting this hearing had been scheduled so the mayor would be able to attend. Number 1433 ERROL CHAMPION, Capital City Republicans, came forward to testify next. He spoke from a prepared statement: I have been in Alaska for over 35 years and I've lived in Juneau for the past 21. As I was thinking about what points to cover this afternoon, I found it very difficult to write down anything that hasn't already been stated over and over during the last 40 years of debate on this issue. I recall the argument in 1961 while I was living with my aunt and uncle in Anchorage. Even though this was shortly after statehood, the discussion of where to locate the capital was an issue for a few, and, unfortunately, it's still with a few of us today. The lack of support for a capital move in those days was based on the fact we had to be frugal. Alaska had limited funds as Prudhoe Bay had yet to be discovered. Elected leaders had to make very prudent decisions on where to spend those limited funds to do the most good for Alaska. The issue of moving the capital was not high on the priority list then, and after 37 years which has seen numerous statewide votes, initiatives and the expenditure of millions on studies, moving the legislature and the capital is not a topic with the majority of Alaskans. It continues to remain at the bottom of the list on priority of needs. I'm co-chair of the Capital City Republicans which also includes a position on the state central committee of the Republican Party. In all of my work with statewide party leaders, the topic of moving the legislature and ultimately the capital is not in our platform. In fact, it's never even been on the agenda for discussion. We Republicans are focused on shrinking the size of state government, doing more with less, and returning the delivery system of public services back to the local communities. Our party is committed to electing Alaskans who share and support this philosophy. The location of where "downsizing" state government takes place is not an issue for the RPA [Republican Party of Alaska]. I ask that you think very carefully about what are the real preferences of Alaskans. I believe it's our public education system, crime, making needed repairs to our transportation systems, fixing up our public facilities and, most of all, creating a healthy economic climate that will stimulate the growth of private enterprise to provide jobs and opportunities for generations to come. After all these years, isn't it time to get on with solving the real priority issues for Alaskans? The philosophy of the Republican Party must remain the focus of our collective efforts while we have the opportunity to make things happen. Let's not spend any more time on issues such as moving the legislature which is tantamount to a capital move. And I thank this committee and you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to testify. Number 1579 DON ABEL came forward to testify next. He stated he was a lifelong Alaskan, had been in Juneau for 61 years, and was a candidate for the state Senate seat from that area. Mr. Abel testified regarding the effects on the private sector, stating, "Just to give you an idea of what it's like to be in the private sector and have this kind of hammer hanging over our head. ... It's a ripple effect." He said, "I'm in the building supply business, we have been since 1936 here. And when ... these come forward like this what happens is, we see the long-term projects start to come off the table. Who's gonna still go into a 10 or a 20-year financing program to put up apartments or condos or whatever they're gonna build ... when they don't know if the job base is gonna be around." He said this has happened over and over again, and some of the problems the legislature has experienced in trying to find decent or affordable housing in Juneau has been exacerbated by this over the years. He commented, "We saw it again this year, we're seeing it now. And ... it's very prevalent. We eventually overcome it, things settle down, we gain a little bit, then somebody wants an issue and back it comes again. And so it's a ripple effect throughout the whole - whole economy here, and I think it's very serious for us." Mr. Abel related that he had recently spoken with a former Anchorage legislator, stating, "And I did not ask ... whether he would give his permission to give his name, but I think he would if I asked him, but he says, 'Don, this is ... very wrong. I served down there for many sessions. The idea is to go down, to go to Juneau, get the work done, focus on it. ... That's what you do, get ... the state's business done and then go home. ... The idea of bringing it into the Anchorage arena, ... gosh knows what you're gonna wind up with and how long it'll take to get it done, whether they'll even show up most of the time. ... It'll won't be the same way at all, ... your sessions could run extremely long and be very unproductive. ... I think it's a very, very bad idea.'" Mr. Abel indicated that completed his testimony. Number 1699 RICK URION came forward to testify next. He indicated he was a former member of the Alaska State Legislature House of Representatives and said he was testifying on his own behalf. He stated, "In 1972 I was elected to this body from Anchorage. In 1972 the capital move was a big issue. We had a newspaper in town that every other day was an article about the capital move, and all of us supported the capital move. When I first came here I supported the capital move because I thought that was the right thing to do. ... I don't remember the time frame, but it wasn't very long when I was here that I realized what a terrible issue this was, and ... the issue wasn't what ... it looked like. It was a real estate transaction, it had nothing to do with government. It was an issue of greed and selfishness. It makes no difference where the capital is. Would the Dallas Cowboys have won the Super Bowl in January ... if they were based in Denver? The answer is no. It's not ... where you base the team, it's the members of the team. And you have a good team, and you can perform here in Juneau as well or if not better than anywhere else. I think it's long past time that this issue needs to be put to rest. If this building is bad, fix it. I'll dare say that this building's gonna be in service long after everybody in this room is dead. If you want a new building, appropriate some money and build it, but don't blame it on Juneau, don't blame it on the location. The communication system, everything, is much better than it was. (Indisc.) the last 25 years have made tremendous improvements in communications. Here is an issue that's the heart and blood of this community, right in this community. Is the room full of Juneauites? Are they packing the halls? No, they're not. Would they in Anchorage? ... People (indisc.) want access to government but they really elect you to do the job, and they really don't want to worry about government. And they're not worried government, they put it in your hands. Let's put this issue of the capital move to rest. Fix the building if you need to fix it, or build the building, but don't move the legislature or the capital from Juneau. That's stupid. That's all I have to say." Number 1804 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there was anyone else who wished to testify on HB 304. Hearing none, he stated the public testimony was closed. Number 1816 REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON thanked the chairman for hearing this bill and indicated he wished to testify himself on HB 304, having talked with Chairman Rokeberg and the other prime sponsor. Representative Hudson stated he thought he understood some of the concerns expressed, noting he recognized the difficult exit situation from the committee chambers. He said he thinks it is a reasonable thing to examine how they might be able to improve the current space or move into another space. He said he has suggested taking a hard look at even moving the legislature over to one of the top floors of the State Office Building and perhaps housing some of the state employees somewhere else on a regular basis. However, Representative Hudson said, "Those are the kind of things that we can look at if we have the cooperation of people like yourself from outside of the town here," and he indicated Juneau could not build a new Capitol building unless there was some sort of an agreement with the legislature to lease the building back over a period of time to amortize it. Representative Hudson noted the chairman's real estate background. He said he looked forward to working with the chairman, hopefully on an interim committee basis to examine this situation. Representative Hudson stated, "We're looking at a road, Mr. Chairman, trying to improve the access ... from the rest of the state of Alaska into the capital. We're also, I think, the possibility of looking at reduced legislative sessions. ... We're up to 120 days every session that we're down here, and that's exactly what we do. We might want to take a look at [the] possibility ... of developing a reduced legislative session period of time, perhaps a 90 to 120, or 90 to 100 days." Number 1897 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON continued, "The two-year capital budget process would reduce, I think, the second year of the legislative session as well. So, I think that ... there's ways to do that. I notice in one state, they've actually moved to amend their constitution to allow their members, under certain circumstances literally to vote from home. And here we are, in the state of Alaska, where nobody is connected by roads except literally from that distance around the Anchorage area .... All the rest of us are somewhere up in the villages or down in Southeast Alaska or somewhere else out on an island somewhere ...." Representative Hudson indicated they might want to take a look at the possibility of establishing some parameters within Alaska's rules and, if necessary, in Alaska's constitution allowing members of the legislature to literally be able to vote on floor sessions from the nearest Legislative Information Office (LIO) or from home, giving emergency medical, transportation, and inability to get in as possible reasons. Representative Hudson stated, "Those are, in my opinion, some constructive ways in which we could expand our opportunity to interact with the legislature, ... and at the same time, to expand the amount of time that we're closer to the constituents that we serve. We already have eight months out of the year where we are directly related to our constituency and these may be some suggestions on how we could expand that opportunity. ... I just wanted to put that on the record, Mr. Chairman, I think those are constructive comments that I'm looking forward to working with you on ...." Number 1970 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any further comments from the committee. There being none, Chairman Rokeberg said he would respond to Representative Hudson by noting that HCR 9, legislation the chairman had introduced the previous year, would allow committee interim activity; but also on Representative Hudson's point, most importantly, it would allow a teleconference or electronic vote from a committee member not physically present. Chairman Rokeberg said while committee members can participate in discussion via teleconference, they are not allowed to formally vote unless physically present, under rules of this body. He noted that perhaps Mayor Eagan could get behind a resolution supporting the chairman's resolution which he said was presently in the House Finance Standing Committee and which he would like to move this year. Also, Chairman Rokeberg pointed out that both he and Representative Sanders are prime sponsors of a bill shortening the legislative session to 90 days. He indicated that bill was also concerned with term limits and other legislative reform. Number 2038 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated the committee would suspend the proceedings on HB 304. He said it was his desire to further investigate the condition of the current Capitol Building and look at potential drafting of alternate methodologies for developing a plan for a new Capitol building, wherever it may be. Chairman Rokeberg said because of that, and the information he has received from Mr. Logan, the chairman will be sending HB 304 to a subcommittee as he said he has indicated. He stated he wishes the subcommittee to take up the bill this session to review the information the bill sponsors will be providing and to invite the mayor and "the folks here from Juneau" to participate. Chairman Rokeberg said he would particularly like to look at the plans developed previously for Telegraph Hill [in downtown Juneau near the State Office Building]. The chairman stated, "We can do that quietly and amiably, and without ruffling too many feathers, but maybe we can get some work done for the good of the people of the state." With that, he assigned HB 304 to a subcommittee chaired by Representative Hudson, with Representative Rokeberg and Representative Kubina as the other subcommittee members. The legislation was held.
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